What the episode covers
That is not what we want.
Once again we are sharing our diversity and inclusion stories. We discuss how women in tech at bol.com encourage inclusion in tech. The idea for this podcast stems from of course the importance of the subject but also from the diversity and inclusion month we have at bol.com. In June and November last year we spoke about diversity and women in tech in the podcast with several guests. Let’s see what the latest developments and insights are, given that there has been a lot of attention to the subject in the world around us in the last weeks.
In our opinion, we need to keep having these conversations to progress. So, we will probably share more in future episodes.
- Natalia Paratsikidou – Software engineer in the bol.com retail media group (BRMG) domain
- Anastasija Efremovska – Software engineer in the platform domain and 'best friend of the show'
- Marloes Kuijper – Data scientist in the assortment domain
- Raissa Machado – Software engineer working on the select proposition, the bol.com subscription model
- Maartje van Denderen – Front-end developer in the area of assortment tooling for partners
Talks during spaces summit 2020:Making Demos great again - MarloesFrom prototype to production. A real-life cloud story - AnastasijaExperience the hive mind through Mob Programming - Natalia; this session is not on Youtube. It was a hands-on session based on the Kata principle
Please be aware: the transcription has been produced by an automated process.
Yeah, do you have this podcast stems from the course, of
course, from the importance of the subject, but also from the
diversity and Inclusion month we have had both. Com and also in
June and November last year. In both cost we spoke about
diversity and women in tech.
In several cases. Let's see what are the latest
developments and insight, especially given that there
are some other has been a lot of attention for the subject
in the world around us in the last week.
Yes, yes, an inclusion is one of the subjects I remember well
from our podcasts. Mary was sharing her story about feeling
excluded and the talk she had about inclusion with our former
CEO. And during that interview, but also during the editing
again after it, it gave me the goosebumps. So I'm really
curious right now how it is in
this talk. And in this talk we want to define in two. So P, X2
parts we start first with diversity and inclusion, and in
this case the women in tech them order generic story an to make
it more concrete week off to the second part based on the
examples about the talks during space. Assuming so, baseball
time to introduce the guests.
Yeah, and then we have quite a list of guess. I don't think
that we ever had to so many guess so so that's I think that
also stresses the importance of this. So let me first introduce
Natalia Paratsikidou, software engineer in
the in the BMG. So that's basically where we sell
advertisements on our platform.
Yeah, great to be here. I'm really happy and I I was like
I'm on my maternity leave. But I was like I find it really
important to share my experience. So thank you very
much for inviting.
Anastasija Efremovska, she's software engineer, as she saw on her
LinkedIn profile that she like to likes to make me break
things. So I was curious about these lines in the profiles, but
if you're if you have listened to the podcasts a lot, then you
know that she was actually in one of our first. I think
actually the first port costs when our equipment was way less
than this and we were just starting out so.
Yeah, really cool to have you back.
Yeah, uh, thank You Beautiful. It's it's great to
be back. It's actually the third time I think the
previous presented part of this.
How can I yeah?
Best friends of the exactly best Friends of podcasts.
Glad to be back, yes.
Marloes Kuijper, data scientist in the
assortment domain, I know from other teams that there's a lot
going on in the Serpent domain for data scientist. So great to
have you as well.
Thank you very much Peter. Well, thanks for having me. I'm really
looking forward to this.
Raissa Machado, also a software engineer, this
is in the team reptile and it's on the select proposition. So if
I'm correct, the select subscription where we offer
certain things to Members for
platform. Yes, yes, that's right. That's me. Hi
everyone, very glad to be here and uh, if you're not
a member of select please go and buy a subscription.
So now we have also posted sponsored content.
They collected via the BRG stuff I guess, but we'll talk
about that later and then a last cause guest of today is
Maartje van Denderen she's fronted the developer and
given this chest in education in journalism, think debating
and I will learn a lot during this podcast says we don't.
She's look she's working on assortment tooling for our
partners on the platform
welcome. Yes, thank you very much nice to be here.
So, um, yeah.
Jim Diversion and Inclusion month. Why is it so
important in both com.
Yes, so the diversity and Inclusion Month is something
that came out out of the diversity and inclusion work
group that has on the lines of 10 people working on this.
Nowadays we think it's really important to raise awareness
throughout the company regarding the topic, so we need to speak
about this and do something that's not like a onetime
campaign but rather a continuous continuous cause that we put
effort and we tried to develop further and further. So that's
why we're trying to raise awareness throughout the
company. So that more people can see the importance of this
subject and can also join the group and help us build
something more concrete.
Can you give an example what we what we did in that month? Well,
yes, of course. So the month was divided in four weeks. The first
week was focused on awareness, so we shared a lot of numbers
regarding awareness as a more abstract topics or a general
topic. And then we will go then into the teams. So we had the
women in Tech Week. We had the pride Week and the International
Week and for every week we had a small special activity. So
either a lunch session or a talk of the international.
Or kind of like a coffee blind date. We also had the pub quest
to wrap up the month, which you guys probably heard of. It was
the first fully online event that we organized. I think we
had close to 400 people joining so it was quite big.
And we're really proud of the the month in general, because
after that we got a lot of people reaching out, starting
the conversation and just saying, hey, I would like to
help. How can I help and that's what we look for more people to
become engaged. And I think we really we really 'cause we
really made him an impact and that was really amazing I I'm
really proud of it.
And you said that in the beginning you shared some
numbers. How to spell.com compared to other companies in
the Netherlands? Could you share a little on that? Yes, of
course. So I think some numbers we are still below the national
average. So regarding women in tech we were last time that I
checked 1.5% below the national
average. But women as a whole in the company, we are 41%, so
that's quite an OK number.
And, um. Let me see if there are other numbers that I have
from the top of my head. Maybe I should have prepared better.
I'm sorry logo.
Overall we are not doing a.
That bad if we only take the numbers into account, of course
numbers not always give the full the full answer, right?
Exactly because then again, this would be my remark. This is just
the numbers. But that's very different than it
feels sometimes. I can imagine exactly yes.
Yes, and also it may be interesting to see that the
women in tech will Bolt form is so short of around average for
the country, but there's a country in in general, the
Netherlands is doing pretty bad on the how many women and
network in depth, and this is actually something that we
really would like to improve so that yeah we have more women in
tech services and Isabel, it's gonna be a really big company.
So because there are.
Relatively prime, quite a lot of women insect, but this is really
something we can do to make an
impact. To show that I pay this something we both won't find
really important, and maybe we can also inspire some people to
think about a career in tech if they haven't done that before.
Yeah, I knew there was a women in tech.
Community you can you came up with this statement you worked
on that together with, uh, our people end Department I believe
and and I think it was even that
aborts that. Signed the statement right, can you can
tell more about the statement? But what did we put on paper?
Yes, of course. So when we were first starting, the community
marching and I we had a very clear idea of what we wanted the
community to be like. But we felt that having only our own
opinions was not enough to build a very strong, long lasting,
relevant community. So we organize a kick up session last
year where we invited.
Everyone to participate and give their opinions and together with
Susanna, here's help. We had a workshop and we gathered a lot
- Heard from everyone on what they felt the community
should represent. And while we should stand for, and
that's how we came up with the women in tech statement
that is based on three pillars we have the encourage
pillar, the share pillar, and the diversified pillar and
the idea under each of those pillars is that the encourage
session. The encourage pillar is where we.
Together as a community, we do some networking. We build
bridges. We try to be authentic, open and vulnerable, but most
importantly we listen and we have been doing monthly meetings
where we just have lunch together and we just have a safe
space where everyone can can support each other. That has
been really successful so far.
And then under the share pillar we we're working on
inspiration sessions because we do know we have so many
amazing women working inside the company that are really
working that their ***** off. Sorry for my language, but
that's true really being very innovative and just being
game changers and we want to create a platform where those
women can just tell their stories so that they also
inspire other women and everyone actually too.
Perform their jobs better by just sharing the their life
stories. They can also just make a very positive impact on the
community in general and then we have the diversified pillar.
And the idea there is that we embrace the uniqueness of all
people. So we want to be very aware of biases and we want to
be also very inclusive, which means that this Community is not
only for women, is for everyone. Because we do understand that
there is no way that will change the status quo if we only have
women involved. So if you are a man and you're listening to this
podcast and you want to get involved, please reach out
because we need your help. And I think that by having everyone's
perspective, that's how we can.
Actually make a positive impact and create a change on the
company and on the environment around us. And actually I also
want to give just a quick shout out to Timon from recruitment
because he has been working with us already and then that's
really positive and we need more
people like that. Yeah, so they embraced the uniqueness of all
people and that's that's the diversified pillar one.
OK, and then this statement was put on paper and then our board
member Ellen said, OK, this is that important. I want to sign
it off an want to be part of it as well, right? It's how kind of
exactly so we're really proud and we think it's really great
that we have this this kind of support from directors as well.
Great, great to see in here. Yeah and then.
Yeah, maybe that's a nice bridge. Of course, if you
talk about sharing and inspire other is is dead,
then where the if you talk about our spaces Summit?
And then we have this this yearly event. This time it was
online. You should hear the listen to the other episode. We
talked about it and in this space summit tree women stood up
and said I want to present over there and that's the bridge here
and I think. I'm
yeah, can you share something about your presentation? An
yeah. But why did you choose the topic before we go to women in
tech relationship again?
Wants to start.
I can start um, so the presentation I've
participated in a few conferences and.
They always had Carter involved as a workshop or of as of
a talk, and I thought, oh, that's a great topic to do at
ball. So can you hear me? I'm not sure I lost it. OK so.
That's how the idea came up. I participated in a Carter
workshop talk in Tenerife in Socrates Internet, so I
thought I can do it. I have the knowledge why not and
that's how it came in, but I really want to share a first
and foremost that I couldn't have done. It actually didn't
do it, but the workshop.
Was held by Duncan Lou and it wouldn't have been possible if.
This amazing colleague for me wasn't there to support me and
actually we did it together so I wasn't alone. I'm here to
present it. It was indeed my idea, but I had help and I
think it's there. It is well with what I said that we are a
community. We need to help each other to go further.
I'm a loose yeah, those are really nice where it's a Natalia
yeah for me I presented on stream net which is an
application framework in Python which makes it really easy to
create really nice visual demos from scratch in like very short
amount of time. And basically it might seem we do a lot of
product discovery which means we do a lot of presentations to
stakeholders and to the team itself and streamed. It really
helps us a great deal because it allows us to really quickly set
up visually appealing and
interactive demos. And so the reason why I wanted to present
on this is basically to share my knowledge on. It's an it's.
It's a pretty new tool so not many people knew about it yet,
so I really wanted to make sure that everybody in the community
knows about it and can also use it to their advantage.
But it's always nice to hear that that we can share
knowledge, and I think it's a
great opportunity. And that kind of also inspired me for
my presentation, because it's not really the stage
fright that kept me from presenting. I feel like I
was struggled to find a topic that I think would be
relevant for people and that people would have something
new to hear.
So this year I thought we actually had the perfect
opportunity. So together with my colleague Karen, we present it
on our internal infrastructure to called R2D2. You can also
check out their podcasts. By the way, Karen and your own from my
team. They talked about the art of data two awhile back on the
podcast and it has actually existed for a few years and we
have quite a new collection in the company so we thought it
would be nice to tell the story
- How did it come to be and what were the decisions made
three years ago? And what would you maybe do differently if you
do did it today?
So yeah, that was the motivation behind those three
presentations. I believe we also put them on online on YouTube,
so insurance, we will add the links of course, but the debt so
far that the topic thing you can see that it's already 3 totally
different topics. So that's interesting. But yeah.
What was it that you?
Yeah I wanted to present something during spaces submit
and especially this subject.
For me it was in Italian for me. It was mainly because I I
was missing the CATA mindset in the bowl.com conferences in our
environment. In general I found it a great way for me to
open up and meet people and see different ideas an also
cultivate a lot for me. It helped me cultivate my.
Um software engineering practices. I think it made me a
better software engineer, so I wanted to bring it to ball.
Some are loose. Yeah, so for me. Like I said it was mainly about
sharing knowledge, but I also wanted to kind of show off the
things that the cool things that my team is doing which we're
proud of. And also I wanted to really push myself a bit, so I'm
not really usually. I'm not ready to the person who goes to
speak at conferences. In fact it was my first conference talk.
And yeah, I kind of wanted to get out of my comfort zone and
be like, yeah, why not? Why why shouldn't I do this? I mean,
it's cool and I have something
to say so. Yeah, let's try.
Attitude really wants to do this yourself that it comes from you
or did someone push you a little too to take this step.
I think it was mainly me. I don't think anybody was really
pushing me, but together with a couple of teammates we were all
really excited about space submit and a couple of my
colleagues also submitted some abstract. So yeah, that also
helped. So we were in it together, so to speak. Yeah, so,
so it really helps if other people in your environment are
also doing it, because that is more easy to to also participate
and wanted to be out there on
stage, right? Yeah, exactly yeah definitely.
And for under. Ask him what was
your. Motivation your drive.
Yeah, so on one hand we've been receiving a lot of questions
about R2D2, so we wanted to take this opportunity to answer some
of them. And also it's made us a bit more transparent. I find on
what we're doing to the rest of
the company. An to a kind of add on Marluxia story. It was a bit
too. I wanted to practice my presentation skills, but my
colleague Karen also wanted to do the same. So this is a really
nice opportunity to do it together and also hold each
other responsible of its two to make it good and to share the
load. So I really like that. Yeah, so it's a combination of.
Yeah, really present about the the topic, the content, an
combination of the development, personal development. So you
want to make a next step in
presentation, etc. So, um.
Yeah, if you're connected with your ex and your experience with
the other questions and if you if you look at the number of
women presenting during spaces submit, it's really unknown
Can you explain it based on your experience?
Yeah, so maybe I'll start this time. I think from from myself
at least I I always struggle a bit to find a topic as I said
that I think people would be
interested in. So I think as women we maybe try to be a bit
perfectionist and really find the really nice thing and
something that hasn't been done
before. And we really try to have a topic that's really good
or in other safe or whatever, But that's that. Doesn't have to
be always the case. I've noticed I've been to many conferences
where where you can hear very niche sort of things that maybe
have been discussed.
And they are not necessarily your topic of interest, but
there are somebody's topic of interest, so you can always
find people that are interested in what you have
to say. And just because you're not good at that
certain topic doesn't make you good in another topic, so
you should think that probably you have something
interesting to say.
I think that's my experience.
For you and Marloes, yeah, so I also agree I can relate to what
under Stasya saying. I also think it can be quite daunting
to present at a conference. I mean it's it's one thing to
present for your team, but it's another to present for the whole
tech community, right? So and that's not just for women, but
that's also for men. And I think you know there are quite a few
people who have done this like many times who are very
confident in. Presenting we're very comfortable. And then
there's also a very large group in the tech community
who have never done that before who don't feel like
really comfortable presenting for a large audience and.
So I think we already have a lot of like a big support
system in place, but I think making sure that everybody
knows that it's there that there is a lot of support and
that is a very safe community to present in is really,
really important, and I think that could be very powerful
thing to do moving forward.
For you to tell you it's similar experiences or I
like I couldn't agree more with an assassin marlous.
Really, I felt exactly the same way.
One extra thing that I notice is that the reason why in ball, but
also in other companies, I do believe that ball is doing quite
a good job. Let's say based on my previous experience, is the
way a company presents itself.
So I also I have an experience in a conference that someone
asked me. Would you like to talk a bit to us about women in tech?
And I was like why? What can we do to increase what they would
do it? What can we do to get you into our company? And I was like
look for personally for me. And of course this is Natalia
speaking. It's different per person. If I see that the
company is presenting itself full of men and predominantly
like how strong they are and
how. Like getting it all out there. I would feel a bit scared
that not scared that all will go there and what am I gonna do?
But mostly like are my idea is gonna be heard. Is there space
an enough security let's say for every different idea to be
cultivated and I think that's the most important thing and I
think it that is also diversity is not only about women in tech
is about different perspectives.
And ways of thinking.
And because my loose mentioned the feeling safe
and also about presenting at a conference like the Space
Summit Diffie, in your opinions, do a good enough
job there so that you could feel safer. Or should we
still take additional steps to make it even better?
Yeah, that's a good question. I think like I said, we have a
really nice support system in the tech community. There's
the walk-in sessions for speakers. You know, there's a
presentation course that you can take, so there's already a
lot of things going on, but of course we don't really know.
This is in the case of very few female presents, as we don't
really know why it is that there are so very few female
presenters, so I think there could still be. You know there
are a lot of questions still unanswered and I think that
would be my suggestion in figuring out what those answers
are. You know, like maybe collecting data through survey,
figuring out if people are willing to or women are willing
to present next year and why.
It is that they will or why they don't want to go an. You
know, collecting some feedback, asking the
important questions like you know what is it that we can
do to help? What are things that are fair? What are
holding you back? And if we have answers to all those
questions, we can determine what are the next important
steps and if we're doing a good enough job, I think.
What was it already a topic and maybe now looking a bit
more to my tan? He said in the women in tech group?
Number of women sharing their stories in space, assuming there
wasn't. I'm not sure, but we are preparing a session for the end
of this month where we intend to do exactly this survey so.
Individually, I have been speaking to a few women so I
have an idea of what might be. You know the issue there, but we
want to gather more more inside
- We intend to do that during one of the lunch sessions. Just
have an anonymous survey so that they can answer and hopefully
will find more concrete things
to tackle. Yeah, but it was not not some discussion
already up front. For instance, during the request
for proposals that unfortunately now.
That's that's good to realize.
So it wasn't inside. You got during their spaces, summits
that there were really few women in doing this presentation.
Yeah, of course if there are in general will be more women
working in tech then of course you can expect the number we've
been presenting in the present in the conference is also be
larger so. Yeah, that's of course the currency
Should we do as a company something specific on that site
should be you've been talking to time and already, but should we
do something in the way we publish our vacancies?
Uh, for non white men, let's let's put it like that.
I think he has been very busy working on that specifically, so
basically going through all the copy so the very small things
the way that you write stuff you have to be very careful not to
use like very.
Not to put gender as a very big role there. Also one thing that
we notice while we were on the women's at conference last year
in Amsterdam we had some pamphlets. We had a booth. We
were there as a company as Balakan and we had a group and
we had some pamphlets to showcase the company and while
we realize while we were at the conferences that the pamphlet
only had pictures of men and we were in a women in tech
conference. So that was, you know one of the things.
We should definitely work on if we want to showcase the
diversity that we already have in sideball, then we should be
paying more attention to those small details for sure. Another
thing that we have been.
Working together with recruitment is making sure that
every time that we have a female engineer on the process on the
recruitment process, now we make sure that she she meets with at
least one female engineer as well so that she knows that
there are also female engineers working at the company and she
can feel more, perhaps more safe or more relaxed during the
interview process to maybe ask questions or just identify
herself a little bit more.
If I may add something on that, um, I think from my perspective
we should also be a bit careful because we don't want to
segregate the whole. The subject of recruitment, so I think we
have to be careful with the pamphlets and with the wording,
including diversity, diversity, but not really be targeted as of
we're trying to improve to increase our seats.
Of how many women we have? Becausw yeah, we're trying to
promote uh, self more into that area. Becausw. Speaking from
experience I have heard from a lot of female engineers at Ball
event that they don't want to be identified as of something
different. They just want to an I. I feel the same as well. I
want to be part I don't wanna be something separate.
So it's more about inclusion, I think.
But that's kind of hard if you're.
And it's it's needed to to to pay attention to, so that's why
we have this women in tech statement and we have you
explained the three pillars but all the other or the other
hands. You know you want to be one team and it in fact you
saying it shouldn't be necessary? Is that what you
mean? It's yes, because then it becomes too much. Yes, because
we saw it with the international community as well. That it some
point. People, don't you need everyone to work together, so
you need everyone to identify with that and.
I I don't want to feel that I have special treatment and I
think that people in tech want to feel empowered because of the
no let's not be cause someone.
Made them a favor. Let's say that that is
not the hardest thing.
And how with hiring people, right? Let's the most.
The hard thing at the moment, because a lot of companies are
thinking about how are we going to make our company more
diverse, but you have to put some effort, but nobody wants
to be the first be higher. So how are you gonna make sure
that you do? Having heard the first thing but at the same
time that people don't feel like they are different to the
higher and that's really hard I think. And the main thing to
do is to make sure that in even the BSS that we're really
inclusive company and that's everybody feels welcome and.
Yeah, definitely. I think the trick there is that we should be
aware of the biases on our recruitment process. So there is
this very cool study that Air BNB performed with their
recruitment process. They removed the names and the gender
from the the.
Thank you from the CVS and then they notice that a lot
more women were going through the pipeline. So just by
removing the gender, they already notice that there was
an implicit bias there that no one was noticing. And that's
that's the type of thing that we we try to work on as well.
Just removing our own biases.
Especially from the bonds that we we think we are, we don't
have, but it proves you have to do by doing it like this.
But this example amazing if you think about it.
Now I just once smoke way question for the topic for about
spaces. Some it again before we go to the closing runs already.
What especially for spaces some it is needed. Then we talked
about some recruitment examples already. What is for space
submit needed to attract more women? What do you think?
I think, um, I think it's good to include or to promote a bit
more first time speakers we notice by talking with Marty
Heiser that a lot of us were just the first time that we
present it. So I think the coming years it's good to have a
bit of a campaign of helping out the first time speakers. So
maybe in the survey we can.
Ask everyone OK, what? What are your interests? What would you
like to present for instance? And then we can see from there.
But other incidents interest maybe on the women side or on
the men's side than yeah, if you have presented before. If not,
think that's how we could be inclusive, but not only
specifically promoting an yeah
agenda. OK. Yeah, I think so too. I think that's a
really nice way to look at it to promote people
who would normally not present to to actually go
and get up on that stage.
Yeah, so for instance you could. Like I said there are many
experienced speakers out there who would probably love to coach
someone who's never spoken at a conference before. So in that
way you could also leverage those that knowledge that's in
the organization to help someone make that final order that
needed Step 2 to present. And yeah, and I think the survey
that's going to be.
Sent out by Asia on like women, presenting at Safe
Spaces, Summit is also a really good step forward.
I cannot agree more and I think having the I took this
here the preparation workshop that we organize usually for
presenters an I must recommend it and I think it would be
nice if we promote that and with more throughout the year
and not pursue only be for a conference. Come by. That way
we give people a bit more time and a bit more leisure to kind
of do it in a less stress way or in less time pressure.
I think the water I'm going to do a circle. I think it is
really like important that maybe that's also a key to success.
Having more simulation throughout the year, not having
to wait Spaces Summit for the presentations. Wehavetheball.com
meetups also. Uh, personally, I haven't really seen how this
process goes and how you can reach out. What can. What are
the topics that you could present or other small internal
initiatives? Yeah, other talks as well. That's amazing. Yeah
yeah, I mean like speaking like anything else, like writing cold
or whatever, or flexing your muscles is a muscle that you
need to get comfortable with so.
Taking any opportunity you can, you can find to present.
I think it's a very nice practice for anybody.
And if you're scared of presenting and I would like to
visual thing, you can also contact your favorite podcast
house and say, hey, I've got an interesting topic for you and
then that would also could be for our number, so that would
would benefit us both so.
But getting more serious on this phone which you
have any recommendations for beta and myself?
Uh, yeah. Also to work on diversity. Is there something in
our approach why we are having the people in our show that we
have in our show?
Or do you have any ideas on that?
I think just from the fact that you we do that in English and
that means that we are reaching out to the whole of the end. For
me, it's really important. Whatever it's happening in
English, I really feel as part of the family. I think that we
saw is amazingly inclusive because even from the beginning
there were diverse people there. I think it's percentage wise is.
Kind of help Alpha based on knowledge and experience in
gender and cultural background so.
I also like that the topics are quite mixed, so they're not
strictly very technical. Sometimes attach a bit on social
topics to like like the Imposter Syndrome podcast you had
recently. It's just maybe something you see in tech a lot,
but it's a more general topic. I think it's nice to have a bit of
a wacky topic now and then and just be you have a crazy thing
you've been thinking about? Do you think it's worthy?
Tell me something really fun, yeah?
Alright, now maybe it's going to to go to the closing round
trip and fall. What do you think? I think it's time for
that. Yeah, so so good you'll share your your your key
takeaway here with the audience please.
Well for me, um for me the most important thing was
I had an idea and I was really convinced that I would like to
present it this time after all these years football and then I
was pregnant and from the beginning it was obvious that I
wasn't being able. I wouldn't be able to present it, so I had the
great help from Duncan Luann. Actually, I think that even if I
wasn't on maternity leave, it would have been.
Great from the beginning to share it with someone else
and do it together and I really wouldn't have done it
without him. It was a collaborative effort and I
would like to suggest to everyone to try to talk to
other people and do it together.
Nice yeah I completely agree. I think that's a
really nice way to do presentations and talks for
- I think the key takeaway is that.
We all really like Spaces Summit, but there's always
things that are up for improvement and I think it's
really nice that we are reflecting and that we are
bringing it to the table and that we are talking about this.
And I think only in that way you can really make make things even
better. And yeah, there are a lot of cool things happening, so
I'm really looking forward to next year Space Summit to see
see what we come up with.
Yeah, for me it would be if you want to present but you don't
have an idea, think about it. I'm pretty sure you can find
something interesting that doesn't look interesting at
first view, but many more people would be actually happy to hear
about it. So ask around then you'll see you'll find a nice
topic to talk about.
And from their women in tech community drivers Martin Heise,
what about you?
Yeah, so I would like to see our community playing a more
prominent role in engaging more women towards presenting. So as
we mentioned before, maybe creating a safe space where they
can practice doing those throughout the year. Also, just
assessing perhaps the underlying issues that are not very clear
right now, so I would like to see the community taking a more
active role in that manner.
Yes, I totally agree with that.
And my personal takeaways near me that I have to
present next year.
Postponing it so yes.
Yeah so Yep, thanks for your time to share this with with us
and with with you all this I I believe it's really good to do
an explain what you came up with this statement with the three
pillars but encouraged by Sharon diversity, but also about the
stories about the space Summit
talks an. And I like already. I see kind of red
line in and do it together.
Lower the the your own barrier to to do so and and start small
and the space time. It's an internal summit, but you can
also use other internal ones before you go out standing, so
that's also great to hear. Really interesting in what comes
out of the.
The inventory that you want to do the the questionnaire survey.
And I'm also interested if somebody is listening that wants
to share thoughts, and if it's internal bullet come, you know
how to find out workplace, but if it's outside bullet come you
can send email to tacklefootball.com or you can
come to the Twitter account or send it to us. Or maybe to you
as well. So share your ideas on this that would be also very
nice I believe. So yeah, the food for thought I would would
say, but also it's we started off with women in tech, but then
it became diversity in tech.
And yeah, it it's there's a lot of stuff to talk about again, so
so thank you, yeah.
Thank you very much Sir. Thanks for having us.
Very much here. Yeah, that was great.